Obama's Big Oil Spill Bungle - by Dick Morris

I just got in the below email from Dick Morris, a former Bill Clinton advisor, strategist and pollster, who agrees with me and many others about Obama and his administration really screwing up things concerning the BP Oil Spill.

The BIG QUESTION is whether Obama is doing it on purpose or is just inept. Obama's possible reasons for doing it on purpose would be to further his socialist agenda to shut down and possibly take over the oil industry... don't laugh, it happend with the little dictator in Venezuela... and also to satisfy his left-wing base with their so-called "green energy" concepts since Obama is using this accident to perpetuate so-called "green energy" concepts as well.

If they succeed... and if Obama gets re-elected, America will become a third world country in the next ten years.

I pray that Obama fails!

And I also pray that Republicans and Conservatives take over the House and/or Senate in November 2010 so Obama does not succeed in destroying America as we know it.

Lenny Vasbinder

-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Morris Reports [mailto:subscribers@dickmorris.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Lenny Vasbinder
Subject: Obama's Big Oil Spill Bungle

OBAMA'S BIG OIL SPILL BUNGLE

By DICK MORRIS

Published on TheHill.com - http://reports.dickmorris.com/t/324555/7445237/10923/0/ on June 29, 2010

Printer-Friendly Version - http://reports.dickmorris.com/t/324555/7445237/10924/0/

It's one thing to say that Obama's administration showed ineptitude and mismanagement in its handling of the Gulf oil spill. It is quite another to grasp the situation up close, as I did during a recent visit to Alabama.

According to state disaster relief officials, Alabama conceived a plan -- early on -- to erect huge booms offshore to shield the approximately 200 miles of the state's coastline from oil. Rather than install the relatively light and shallow booms in use elsewhere, the state (with assistance from the Coast Guard) canvassed the world and located enough huge, heavy booms -- some weighing tons and seven meters high -- to guard their coast.

But...no sooner were the booms in place than the Coast Guard, perhaps under pressure from the public comments of James Carville, uprooted them and moved them to guard the Louisiana coastline instead.

So Alabama decided on a backup plan. It would buy snare booms to catch the oil as it began to wash up on the beaches.

But...the Fish and Wildlife Administration vetoed the plan, saying it would endanger sea turtles that nest on the beaches.

So Alabama -- ever resourceful -- decided to hire 400 workers to patrol the beaches in person, scooping up oil that had washed ashore.

But...OSHA (the Occupational Safety and Health Administration) refused to allow them to work more than 20 minutes out of every hour and required an hourlong break after 40 minutes of work, so the cleanup proceeded at a very slow pace.

The short answer is that every agency -- each with its own particular bureaucratic agenda -- was able to veto each aspect of any plan to fight the spill, with the unintended consequence that nothing stopped the oil from destroying hundreds of miles of wetlands, habitats, beaches, fisheries and recreational facilities.

Where was the president? Why did he not intervene in these and countless other bureaucratic controversies to force a focus on the oil, not on the turtles and other incidental concerns?

According to Alabama Gov. Bob Riley, the administration's "lack of ability has become transparent" in its handling of the oil spill. He notes that one stellar exception has been Obama aide Valerie Jarrett, without whom, he says, nothing whatever would have gotten done.

Eventually, the state stopped listening to federal agencies and just has gone ahead and given funds directly to the local folks fighting the spill rather than paying attention to the directives of the Unified Command. Apparently, there is a world of difference between the competence of the Coast Guard and the superb and efficient regular Navy and military.

Now the greatest crisis of all looms on the horizon as hurricanes sweep into the Gulf. Should one hit offshore, it will destroy all the booms that have been placed to stop the oil from reaching shore. And there are no more booms anywhere in the world, according to Alabama disaster relief officials. "There is no more inventory of booms anywhere on earth," one told me in despair.

The political impact of this incompetence has only just begun to be felt. While administration operatives are flying high after a week in which the president's ratings rebounded to 49 percent, per Rasmussen, after his firing of Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the oil is still gushing and the situation is about to worsen.

The obvious fact is that Obama has no executive experience, nor do any of his top advisers. Without a clear mandate from the top, needed efforts to salvage the situation are repeatedly stymied by well-meaning bureaucrats strictly following the letter of their agency policy and federal law. The result, ironically, of their determined efforts to protect the environment
has been the greatest environmental disaster in history. But some turtles are OK!

Go to DickMorris.com http://reports.dickmorris.com/t/324555/7445237/9873/0/ to read all of Dick's columns!

____________________________________________________________

PLEASE FORWARD THIS E-MAIL TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND TELL THEM THEY CAN GET THESE COLUMNS E-MAILED TO THEM FOR FREE BY SUBSCRIBING AT DICKMORRIS.COM! http://reports.dickmorris.com/t/324555/7445237/9873/0/

THANK YOU!

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Click this link,
http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP%20Oil%20Spill, to read
all of my other related articles about the BP spill.

You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to
leave your comments.

Timeline: BP Oil Spill WAS ALL OBAMA'S FAULT... Bush-Cheney Had Nothing To Do With It... The Timeline Proves It!!!

Almost since the beginning of the BP Oil Spill accident, Obama, his administration and their lackeys have been blaming Bush-Cheney and Big Oil for this potential disaster. Here's my first blog that I wrote on May 27, 2010, after hearing Obama blame Bush-Cheney yet again!!! http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/05/obama-tries-to-blame-president-bush.html

I've been Googling and reading and reading and Googling for several weeks and finally started finding some halfway reliable information as to the facts and timeline about the BP Oil Spill, aka Deepwater Horizon Accident, aka Macanado Well Accident.

Once I started finding some reliable sources and then Googling them for more info, I found that Wikipedia was working on a "Timeline Of The Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill" article as well as the main article, "Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill" . I just spent about a half hour making edits to the main article to include some of the timeline data since the main article did not show any timeline information and of course, the bleeding heart liberals and LSM (Lame Stream Media) are constantly trying to blame this accident on President Bush and V.P. Cheney but the FACTS are that this entire operation and accident all started, happened and continues under Obama's administration.

Here's a quick timeline...

1979-1980 - Ixtoc 1 well in Mexican waters of the Gulf Of Mexico spills for 10 months and an estimated 150 million gallons of heavy black crude oil.  Since the well was close to shore, the oil coated the entire shoreline of the Mexican Gulf Coast and 160 miles of Texas Gulf Coast.  See photos and videos here - http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/07/pictures-and-videos-of-1979-ixtoc-1.html

1980-2010 - FORTY YEARS with no major accidents in the Gulf Of Mexico... even after tens of thousands of wells have been drilled.

1995 - "... In 1995, President Clinton signed the Outer Continental Shelf Deepwater Royalty Relief Act which exempted oil wells drilled deep in the Gulf from the normal royalty payments they would normally have owed the government for their oil. Usually, these payments amount to between 12% and 16% of their revenues, so exemption from this requirement did a great deal to catalyze drilling in deep waters in the Gulf of Mexico. As a result of the Administration action, deepwater oil production in the Gulf increased rapidly, growing from 42 million barrels annually in 1996 to 348 million in 2004... The Deepwater Horizon [rig] was one of those catalyzed by the Clinton legislation and began drilling in 2001..." - http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2010/06/10/clinton-catalyzed-gulf-oil-drilling-boom/

2007 - 2008 - "...BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama..." - http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html

2007 - 2008 - "...The oil and gas giant is a major campaign contributor, giving more than $6 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years. President Obama has received the most - $77,051 — which might seem surprising at first blush. But presidential candidates receive a lot more than everybody else, and most major donors, including energy companies, spread their donations between Republicans and Democrats. So it's not shocking that Obama's among the very top recipients, although I would've expected McCain or Bush to have received more...." - http://www.good.is/post/bp-s-donations-to-congress-more-worrying-than-its-donations-to-obama/

February 2009 - BP files 52 page plan for Macanado exploratory well with MMS... waiting until after Obama was in office, even though they acquired the drilling rights to the area in March 2008. Were they waiting for Obama to take office in January 2009 because they knew he was already bought and paid for... or is this just a coincidence???

April 6 - The Department of the Interior exempted BP's Gulf of Mexico drilling operation from a detailed environmental impact study after concluding that a massive oil spill was unlikely. (Wikipedia Timeline)

October 2009 - Drilling commences on the Macanado exploratory well, using the TransOcean Marianas drilling rig since the Deepwater Horizon was being used on another project at the time. A late season hurricane damages the TransOcean Marianas in November.

January 27, 2010 - Obama reiterates openess to drilling... well he should since he's been taking all their money and his people in MMS have been approving all of the plans.

February 15, 2010 - Deepwater Horizon drilling rig takes over drilling of the Macanado exploratory well. (http://www.gizmodo.com/ interactive timeline)

March 31, 2010 - Obama proposes MORE offshore drilling... thank God!!! (http://www.gizmodo.com/ interactive timeline)

April 01, 2010 - Deepwater Horizon passes inspection. (http://www.gizmodo.com/ interactive timeline)

"April 6, 2010 - MMS issues permit to BP for the well with the notation, "Exercise caution while drilling due to indications of shallow gas and possible water flow." (Wikipedia Timeline)

"April 9 - BP drills last section with the wellbore 18,360 feet (5,600 m) below sea level but the last 1,192 feet (363 m) need casing. Halliburton recommends liner/tieback casing that will provide 4 redundant barriers to flow. BP chooses to do a single liner with fewer barriers that is faster to install and cheaper ($7 to $10 million)." (Wikipedia Timeline)

"April 15 - MMS approves amended permit for BP to use a single liner with fewer (safety) barriers." (Wikipedia Timeline)

April 17, 2010 - Deepwater Horizon finishes drilling. (http://www.gizmodo.com/ interactive timeline)

April 20, 2010 - Explosion occurs.... and the rest is history.... and remember that at all stages of the planning, drilling, accident and cleanup, Obama was the President and his people were in charge... or rather NOT in charge.

April 24-25, 2010 - Robots find well is leaking and fail to shut down flow with blowout preventer. Leak estimated at 42,000 gallons per day.

April 25, 2010 - Jun 14, 2010 - Obama turns down offer of skimmers and other assistance from foreign countries... a total of 21 offers from 17 different countries were turned down. At the same time, more than 2,000 American skimmers were NOT mobilized either and most of them are still sitting idle on the east and west coasts and other major waterways. Obama's excuse is that "What if there is an accident in one of those areas?" but that would be like a Fire Department NOT sending fire engines from different stations to put out a major fire and use the excuse that there might be a fire in one of those other areas. A COMPLETELY ASININE EXCUSE.... FROM A COMPLETELY ASININE PRESIDENT!!!

April 29, 2010 - LA Governor Bobby Jindal declares State Of Emergency.

May 02, 2010 - Obama finally visits Louisiana coastline 13 days after explosion and NINE days after oil leak is discovered.

June 29, 2010 - OVER TWO MONTHS LATER, Obama finally accepts partial help from less than half... 12 out of 30 of the countries that have offered clean-up help. No excuse given for turning down help from 17 countries. http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/US-Gulf-Oil-Spill/2010/06/29/id/363429

June 29, 2010 - Dick Morris basically agrees with me and writes, "Obama's Big Oil Spill Bungle" http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/obamas-big-oil-spill-bungle-by-dick.html

July 12, 2010 - BP replaces old cap with a new cap that is expected to contain ALL of the oil leak into this new cap which will then be pumped up to at least four surface tankers. Let's pray that this works!

July 25, 2010 - So far, so good!

July 27, 2010 - The boat crews, planes and helicopters are having trouble finding any oil to clean up so now the left-wing wacko so-called scientists are claiming that the oil is not floating to the surface and that it's hanging around in large plumes hundreds of feet under the surface.  The problem is they can't prove this and they refuse to admit that maybe, just maybe, since the 90 million to 180 million gallons of oil that possibly spilled into the gulf is just 0.000000015% to 0.00000003% of the total water volume of the Gulf of Mexico, it's less than a ten drops in an Olympic sized swimming pool or less than a can of beer in a domed stadium... so maybe, just maybe, that's why it's so hard to find!  DUH!!!!

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Thanks to http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/ for the above image. Now, all you Obama lovers, don't go reporting me! ;-)

Click this link, http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP%20Oil%20Spill, to read all of my other related articles about the BP spill.

You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to leave your comments.

Internet Archive Wayback Machine... And How It Saves Copies Of Closed Down Websites

I've written about and used the Internet Archives Wayback Machine many times in the many forums from hobby to computer tech forums that I participate in on a regular basis but I've been seeing MORE and MORE websites shutting down in the past two years so I wanted to write this short article to inform people of how the Internet Archive Wayback Machine (IAWM) works so you can find information from any of your favorite websites that have gone away.

There's a couple of ways to get to the IAWM.

http://archive.org/ - The home page for the Internet Archives, then on that page, right near the top middle, you'll see a section about the Wayback Machine, where you can enter a URL (website address aka a link) into the field and click Enter or click the "Take Me Back" button and it will bring you to a page of dated links for every snapshot that the Wayback Machine has concerning that website URL.

The other ways to get directly to the IAWM page is:

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php  or the advanced search page, http://web.archive.org/collections/web/advanced.html.

Here's how it works...

I use to publish articles on a free Yahoo website called GeoCities but Yahoo decided to close down GeoCities in 2009 so folks no longer have access to their web pages unless they know about the Wayback Machine.

Here was one of my original GeoCities links (which no longer work)...

http://www.GeoCities.com/LennyVasbinderPI/Politics_Start

Of course, clicking that link brings you to a page saying the site no longer exists.

Now, if you go to the IAWM and copy/paste or type that URL into the blank field and click "Take Me Back", it will bring you to this page, http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.GeoCities.com/LennyVasbinderPI/Politics_Start, where you will see a series of dated links where the Internet Archives Wayback Machine took snapshots of my web page between 2002 and 2006, which would have been the last time I updated that site since I started using Blogger Blogspot's to post my blogs/articles since then.

Other websites that have been archived include many of the articles on MSN Groups when Microsoft decided to close them down in 2008.

For my fish keeping hobby, at least three LONG-TIME very good websites have shut down in the past two years, http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/, http://www.plecofanatics.com/ and http://www.plantgeek.net/ but most, if not all of their articles and many of their forum threads are preserved on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.

I never did use AOL (aka AOHell to many) but I know that AOL shut down millions of web pages in their "home town" section, at least I think that is what it was called, and many AOL members complained viciously when they lost all of their web pages, online photo albums (which reminds me that Yahoo shut down Yahoo Photo Albums a few years ago when they bought out Flickr.com), etc... so hopefully, any of those folks that thought they lost everything might be able to find some of their data and/or pictures using the Wayback Machine.

All that said, some websites prevent search engines from crawling their pages and for those websites, the IAWM may have also been blocked from crawling the website which means all data may be lost forever in those cases.

I'll probably be adding to this article from time to time so check back... or if you have any questions, please feel free to leave a "Comment" below (click the Comments link at the bottom of this article, if the Comments box isn't already open).

Lenny Vasbinder

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Click this link, http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/Computers, to read all of my other related articles about Computers.

You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to leave your comments.

Update to: The Graph Says It All... Blog On June 7th 2010

See http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/graph-says-it-all-bp-oil-spill-compared.html, with lots of new info, links to other updated blogs and most importantly, a link to video footage and eye-witness video statements of people who saw the 1979 Ixtoc spill to show just how much worse it was compared to the BP spill.

The Gulf Of Mexico will survive this spill... but will America survive Obama and the socialist acts he and his cronies in Congress are passing on us???

Lenny Vasbinder

Hey Republicans... No More Empty Promises, Repeal ObamaCare Today!

It has come to my attention that some inside-the-beltway pundits, strategists and operatives are telling opponents of ObamaCare that they stand a better chance of victory in November if they simply TALK about repealing ObamaCare, but avoid any substantive attempts to ACTUALLY REPEAL IT. Nothing could be further from the truth. Repealing ObamaCare should not be reduced to a campaign slogan. The American people want real action and will only give their respect to those elected officials who take active and substantive steps... right here and right now... to ACTUALLY REPEAL OBAMACARE.

As Congressman Steve King recently put it: “We cannot have a country that lives in freedom and have Obamacare. They are not compatible.”

To that end, I urge you to support H.R. 4903, sponsored by Representative Michelle Bachmann and 57 co-sponsors in the House, which will repeal ObamaCare in its entirety. Furthermore, I also urge you to support S. 3502 and S. 3501, sponsored by Senator Orrin Hatch in the Senate, which will repeal the most egregious and constitutionally-suspect provisions of ObamaCare – the individual mandate and employer mandate. It’s time for less talk and more action. These three pieces of legislation should be brought to a vote immediately. And if they fail, they should be brought up again and again… before the election, not after, as some are suggesting!

Sincerely,

Leonard Vasbinder

(NOTE - The above is primarily directed towards the following but it also applies to ALL Republicans and the few Democrats that aren't SOCIALISTS!!!)

TO: The Republican and Democratic Leadership of the United States Senate and United States House of Representatives: The Hon. Harry Reid, The Hon. Robert C. Byrd, The Hon. Richard J. Durbin, The Hon. Charles E. Schumer, The Hon. Patty Murray, The Hon. Robert Menendez, The Hon. Byron L. Dorgan, The Hon. Debbie A. Stabenow, The Hon. Jeff Bingaman, The Hon. Blanche L. Lincoln, The Hon. Barbara Boxer, The Hon. Thomas R. Carper, The Hon. Bill Nelson, The Hon. Russ Feingold, The Hon. Mitch McConnell, The Hon. Jon L. Kyl, The Hon. Lamar Alexander, The Hon. John R. Thune, The Hon. John Cornyn, The Hon. John Ensign, The Hon. Nancy Pelosi, The Hon. Steny H. Hoyer, The Hon. James Clyburn, The Hon. John B. Larson, The Hon. Xavier Becerra, The Hon. Chris Van Hollen, The Hon. Rosa DeLauro, The Hon. George Miller, The Hon. John A. Boehner, The Hon. Eric I. Cantor, The Hon. Mike Pence, The Hon. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, The Hon. John R. Carter, The Hon. Thaddeus G. McCotter, The Hon. Pete Sessions

-------------

I also sent this as an email to ALL of my State and Federal elected officials using the Tea Party Citizen Action Center's FREE service located here... http://teapartycac.com/index.php Just click on the "MORE" link at the end of the first paragraph.

Here is a copy of my email using the TPCAC:

-----Original Message-----
From: donotreply@votervoice.net
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 7:38 AM
To: Leonard Vasbinder
Subject: Hey Republicans... No More Empty Promises, Repeal ObamaCare Today!

***Please do not reply to this email--this confirmation simply lets you know that your message was sent.***

Leonard Vasbinder:

Your message has been sent to the following recipients:

* President Barack Obama
* Vice President Joe Biden
* Senator Mary Landrieu
* Senator David Vitter
* Representative Steve Scalise
* Governor Bobby Jindal
* Secretary of State Jay Dardenne
* Attorney General Buddy Caldwell
* Senator Conrad Appel
* Representative Kirk Talbot


The content of your message is as follows:

Subject: Hey Republicans... No More Empty Promises, Repeal ObamaCare Today!

Dear [The message(s) you sent had each recipient's name here]:

http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/hey-republicans-no-more-empty-promises.html

It has come to my attention that some inside-the-beltway pundits, strategists and operatives are telling opponents of ObamaCare that they stand a better chance of victory in November if they simply TALK about repealing ObamaCare, but avoid any substantive attempts to ACTUALLY REPEAL IT. Nothing could be further from the truth. Repealing ObamaCare should not be reduced to a campaign slogan. The American people want real action and will only give their respect to those elected officials who take active and substantive steps... right here and right now... to ACTUALLY REPEAL OBAMACARE.

As Congressman Steve King recently put it: "We cannot have a country that lives in freedom and have Obamacare. They are not compatible."

To that end, I urge you to support H.R. 4903, sponsored by Representative Michelle Bachmann and 57 co-sponsors in the House, which will repeal ObamaCare in its entirety. Furthermore, I also urge you to support S. 3502 and S. 3501, sponsored by Senator Orrin Hatch in the Senate, which will repeal the most egregious and constitutionally-suspect provisions of ObamaCare - the individual mandate and employer mandate. It's time for less talk and more action. These three pieces of legislation should be brought to a vote immediately. And if they fail, they should be brought up again and again... before the election, not after, as some are suggesting!

Sincerely,

Leonard Vasbinder

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Also click the ObamaCare and Tea Party Citizen Action Center "label" links on the left side to read all of my other related articles related to this post.

You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to leave your comments.

Express Outrage at President Obama's Plans to Abuse Executive Powers to Grant 12-18 Million Illegal Aliens Amnesty!

Stand Against Amnesty!

Sign The Petition Against President Obama's Plan to Take Authority Over Immigration Away from Congress!

It is disappointing that you are even considering abusing various executive procedures to amnesty the 12-18 million illegal aliens living in the United States. Whom exactly do you represent?

This decision would take policy making out of the hands of Congress in clear violation of the Constitution. Recent amnesty proposals have failed in Congress because amnesty does not have the support of the American people. Attempting to sneak an amnesty through without a vote in Congress will continue to erode the American public's confidence in the Executive Branch.

I urge you to abandon your plans to place lawbreakers above average Americans and legal immigrants. Any executive processes used to amnesty illegal aliens would bring disgrace to our nation, undermine our Constitution, and harm America's unemployed and underemployed.

Only Congress Should Decide Immigration Laws!

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And I add...

ONLY CONGRESS SHOULD DECIDE IMMIGRATION LAWS that are CONSTITUTIONAL and agreed upon by WE THE PEOPLE whom they are supposed to be representing... something they haven't been doing much of lately!!!

Lenny Vasbinder

Sign the petition and join NumbersUSA here:
http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=16

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Also click the Immigration "label" link on the left side to read all of my other related articles about Illegal Immigration.

You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to leave your comments.

"How the Government Slowed Down the Gulf Cleanup" by Ernest Istook

While I rarely copy/paste someone else's material in it's entirety, I think EVERYONE should read this ENTIRE article so I'm having to break my rule today! Please either read the article below or click on this link to read it on NewsMax... and while at NewsMax, subscribe for their FREE News Alerts near the top right corner.

This is just further PROOF that OBAMA is using Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel's Chicago-style politics of "Never let a disaster go to waste!" in furthering Obama's liberal-socialist agenda and the left's anti-Oil mindset... all so Obama can further tax-and-spend us into bankruptcy while persuing unproven "green energy" concepts.

http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/Gulf-oil-BP-cleanup/2010/06/22/id/362748?s=al&promo_code=A236-1

How the Government Slowed Down the Gulf Cleanup
Tuesday, 22 Jun 2010 03:31 PM
by: Ernest Istook

Our own government has quietly admitted that America needs foreign help to handle the oil spill — almost two months after pushing that help away.

Far more oil could have been intercepted before it fouled the Gulf Coast. So why hasn’t our government apologized?

By refusing foreign assistance, we banned both the latest technology and cleanup vessels that far exceed the capacity of America’s oil spill response vessels (OSRVs). We rejected ships with 10 times the capability of the vessels we used instead.

In a quiet announcement on June 18, the Federal On-Scene Coordinator (FOSC) finally agreed that we need help, describing a conclusion reached two days before:

“. . . the FOSC, in coordination with other federal agencies, determined on June 16, 2010, pursuant to 46 U.S.C. §55113, that there are an insufficient number of specialized oil skimming vessels in the U.S. to keep pace with the unprecedented levels of oil discharges in the Gulf of Mexico. Based upon this determination, foreign specialized skimming vessels may be deployed to response operations.”

Technically, the Jones Act remains unwaived and continues to restrict use of foreign vessels other than OSRV’s. Officials invoked only a limited exemption that was put into law after Hurricane Katrina.

By their delay, our bureaucracy and government regulation have made a horrible situation even worse. There were two weeks between the April 20 explosion on the Deepwater Horizon and the time when the first oil made landfall. And it was almost six additional weeks before specialized equipment from overseas was approved by our government for limited use.

The Dutch formally offered help on April 25. Not until June 14 did the U.S. State Department announce that some foreign help would be welcomed from the 17 nations who had been trying to assist.

We violated a basic rule of oil spills: “The key to avoiding catastrophic damage and extreme liability is a fast response.”

So what’s different about the foreign equipment that at long last is being deployed? Capacity, for one. They can do far more and do it more quickly.

To protect the North Sea — a major petroleum-producing area — Europe created cooperatives such as Norway’s Norwegian Clean Seas Association for Operating Companies (NOFO), assembling resources that far surpass America’s.

The largest American OSRV I’ve found has only a 4,000-barrel capacity. Compare that to Norway’s new cleanup standards, which state, “An active effort must always be made to achieve the largest possible tank capacity. Under no circumstances must the tank capacity for storage of recovered oil be less than 1,500 m³.” 1,500 cubic meters is 9,400 barrels. None of our U.S. oil recovery vessels appear to come even close to this standard.

The European Union maintains a multi-faceted inventory of OSRVs. The Netherlands alone lists 11 ships that exceed this 9,400-barrel capacity, including vessels like the Geopotes 14 that reportedly can pick up and contain 47,000 barrels at a time. That’s 10 times larger than any U.S. ship we’ve been using.

Collecting more oil in each run enables more time spent collecting oil and less time carrying oil back to a storage facility.

There’s another problem with how U.S. regulations are slowing down the cleanup. The Dutch are now providing skimmers that can be attached to American vessels. But because most of what’s skimmed is unavoidably water, not oil, they complain that America’s EPA standards won’t let them put back the water. Thus their tanks fill up with a mixture that is mostly water.

That mix is a serious problem. The Incident Commander, Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen, told the media on June 11, “We have skimmed, to date, about 18 million gallons of oily water — the oil has to be decanted from that [and] our yield is usually somewhere around 10 percent or 15 percent on that.”

That means 85 percent to 90 percent of what is collected is water, not oil. If complaints are correct, then unless vessels can separate these at sea and discharge the water, most of what they haul back to a storage facility is water. That means six or seven trips to carry one full load of skimmed oil. Complaints are that our EPA says discharged water from the skimming cannot exceed 15 ppm (parts per million) of oil.

Radio Netherlands reported:

“The Americans don’t have spill response vessels with skimmers because their environment regulations do not allow it. With the Dutch method, seawater is sucked up with the oil by the skimmer. The oil is stored in the tanker and the superfluous water is pumped overboard. But the water does contain some oil residue, and that is too much according to U.S. environment regulations.

“Wierd Koops [head of the Dutch consortium, Spill Response Group Holland] thinks the U.S. approach is nonsense, because otherwise you would have to store the surplus seawater in the tanks as well.

“[Says Koops], “We say no, you have to get as much oil as possible into the storage tanks and as little water as possible. So we pump the water, which contains drops of oil, back overboard.”

“U.S. regulations are contradictory, Mr. Koops stresses. Pumping water back into the sea with oil residue is not allowed.”

He is not alone in criticizing America’s restrictions on the cleanup efforts. Several Democrats in Congress have joined the calls to get our bureaucracy out of the way.

Rep. Corinne Brown, D-Fla., said at a hearing, "We are in emergency mode; we need skimmers . . . There are small boats, I guess, but we need the big ones. I understand they are available in other countries."

We indeed need the big cleanup ships that America must get from overseas. Who knows how many livelihoods — and how much of the environment — would have been spared if our government had not drug its bureaucratic feet and invited them two months ago?

BP has apologized. And still must be held accountable. But where’s the apology from our government — and the accountability?

Ernest Istook served 14 years as a U.S. congressman and is now a distinguished fellow at The Heritage Foundation.

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Also, watch this video and participate in the online/survey poll below!!!



Now, go back to NewsMax.com and fill out the online survey/poll...

http://news1.newsmax.com/bpspill/?PROMO_CODE=A126-1

More reading... http://www.newsmax.com/Murdock/gulf-spill-oil-bp/2010/06/28/id/363233

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Click this link, http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP%20Oil%20Spill, to read all of my other related articles about the BP spill.

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Oil??????????????? - A Continuation Of The Online Debate And Discussion Of The BP Oil Accident

This is a continuation of the blog I wrote last week, which you can read here:

http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/my-first-online-debate-about-so-called.html

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LATE BREAKING NEWS ABOUT THE OIL SPILL....

Subject: BP:innovative solutions
________________________________

BP announced that this morning they installed a wedding ring around the leaking pipe and it quit putting out.
________________________________

ROTFLMFAO!!!!

Also, check out this FUNNY Jon Stewart clip from The Daily Show to put all of this in perspective:

While I'm not a big fan of Jon Stewart's political leanings, he does come up with some pretty good comedy skits on a regular basis and this one goes right in line with the previous blogs about my online discussion and debate of the BP Oil Spill accident. The FACT that the last eight presidents and the past 15 Congress' have FAILED to deliver on their so-called "green energy" concepts is what leads me to so strongly believe that they will not succeed this time either... so until they CAN PROVE that their concepts will work, they should free up the private sector to DRILL BABY DRILL, MINE BABY MINE, BUILD BABY BUILD (Nuclear Power Plants)... as least we KNOW those work... since, based on the past 30 years, we KNOW government can't do it it... much like they screw up most everything else they try to do. I don't know why the government is even involved in "green energy". It wasn't the government that developed coal mining or drilling for oil.. it was the private sector. The government did have a big hand in nuclear power but ONLY after private scientists discovered the capabilities of nuclear fission. Anyhow... you can Google for the history of nuclear power but here's the Jon Stewart Daily Show skit...

The Daily Show With Jon Stewart	Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c
An Energy-Independent Future
http://www.thedailyshow.com/
Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor Tea Party

Here's the link to the above video in case it decides to stop working...
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future

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Here's the continuation / new discussion and debate started with this post in the AquaticLife Yahoo Group:

-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:06 PM
To: AquaticLife
Subject: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

I'm sorry ------------------------- I liked it better when we had the controversy going ---------- at least there was mail.

About 3 new messages in almost as many days.

List is all but dead! Nobody is having ANY problems?

Impossible!

Lenny, IS everyone out swimming and boating? Maybe we should start a thread about Food Recipes?

Bill


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--- On Tue, 6/22/10, jaiko wrote:

From: jaiko
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 10:15 PM

lol bill we r all working for bp so we are busy around here...lol


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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Dax Gorham
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:40 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

Ha it should be easy to start a disagreement and get the mail flowing .... now where would you like that disagreement to be???????????????? LOL

Daniel John Gorham
daxgor@yahoo.com


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 9:08 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

LOL. You have to wait till midnight on Friday to have an OT-weekend free-for-all... if the mods allow it. Just remember to put OT at the start of the subject line so folks know that it's OFF TOPIC! ;-)

There have been other posts though... something about a baby Cory's anus... or was that aeneus? LOL And I saw a post about breeding Licorice Gourami's but I don't think anyone answered it.

I ended my last reply in the Gulf Of Mexico Biotope Tank thread with a bunch of fish recipes... although I didn't get to find out what a Mermaid.... oops.. better not go there! ;-) I didn't find me a terrestrial mermaid this past weekend anyhow so it's a moot point. :-(

Watch... Mike (Deneerz) will chime in now. I think he has a Google alert set up for whenever I mention mermaid. LOL

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/


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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:14 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

You have both my prayers and sympathy! A nightmare of epic proportions to say the least. Many, many folks have already taken down their BP gas station signs in anger and protest. It does not look to good for any of us, the company or the Wildlife either! A no win situation.

Bill


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:34 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

I ONLY buy BP gas right now... oh yeah... and their stock too! Buy low and sell high!

What Congress and the Obama are trying to do and/or doing to BP is outrageous and at the height of hypocrisy from a bunch of mostly crooked politicians... and when compared to what Congress and the Pres are intentionally doing to America... what the BP oil rig accident is doing is FAR less of a disaster or catastrophe.

Thank God, today, Judge Feldman (no relation to Marty) threw out Obama's moratorium on the ongoing drilling down here so at least some piece of sanity is coming back! And we may not have tens of thousands of American's dying this winter and in coming years due to the high price or complete unavailability of heating oil.

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/


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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:38 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

Oh you mean the judge that is deeply vested in stock with Transocean and BP?


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:13 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

Eric Roberts said: "Oh you mean the judge that is deeply vested in stock with Transocean and BP?"

----------

There you go again (in my best Reagan voice)... spreading LIES again... oops.. maybe I should use politician speak and say "untruths" or "misinformation" but I don't have a problem calling a spade a spade! It's a LIE!

Now, that said, while it may be true that Judge Feldman owns or maybe OWNED (past tense) stock in Transocean, but less than $15,000.00 worth back in 2008, (YEAH ERIC.. THAT'S "DEEPLY VESTED"... you must be on welfare and food stamps if you think $15,000.00 is a lot of money), he DOES NOT own any stock in BP. You need to stop reading HuffPo BLOGS as your source of the news... either that or stay off the wacky tobaccky... as your paranoia is getting the best of you now! ;-)

If you do a search of Google News, for 'judge feldman owns BP stock', there are only 291 hits as of right now and most of the summaries and websites are NOT from what I would call reputable News sources... sites like the top hit, Grist Magazine (how is that the top hit - WTF is a Grist Magazine anyhow???), FireDogLake Blog (yeah... that one sounds reputable), San Francisco Chronicle Blog, etc. Heck, I didn't know Google was considering Blog's as News sources now and if that's the case, then it's OFFICIAL... "Obama Is A Post Turtle"... since one of my blogs is about that. LOL http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/obama-is-post-turtle.html

Even CBS News, one of the liberal-left leaning LSM (Lame Stream Media) networks that are/were in the tank for Obama reported:

"...Feldman's financial disclosure report for 2008, the most recent available, shows holdings in at least eight petroleum companies or companies that invest in them, including Transocean Ltd., which owned the Deepwater Horizon. The report shows that most of his holdings were valued at less than $15,000, though it did not provide specific amounts.

It's not clear whether Feldman still has all of the energy industry stock listed in the report. RECENT COURT FILINGS INDICATE HE MAY NO LONGER HAVE TRANSOCEAN SHARES (regular print changed to ALL CAPS by Lenny for emphasis). He did not own any shares in big companies such as BP PLC, which was leasing the rig that exploded, or ExxonMobil..."

From: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/22/national/main6607071.shtml


I actually like this San Francisco blog on the MarketWatch website (part of Wall Street Journal), obviously written by a left-coast so-called reporter, which says (in his obviously biased reporting) but at least he ends the article on an honest note:

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Here's a story everyone can agree to hate.

Martin Feldman, the federal judge who overturned a White House moratorium on deepwater drilling, was an investor in several offshore oil service companies that stand to benefit from his decision. Outrageous!

But seriously. Is anyone really shocked that a man who literally holds court in Louisiana, whose career is defined by local politics and who probably pays close attention to local economics ruled that a six-month ban on deepwater drilling in the Gulf was "arbitrary and capricious"?

Feldman is widely reported to have been a Transocean shareholder as recently as 2008. Maybe he still is....

... But let's face it. Nearly everyone along the Gulf Coast is conflicted by this tragedy. Even fishermen whose livelihoods are on the line understand the importance of the oil industry to their state's economy.

And it doesn't stop there. This conflict goes right to the heart of the nation's schizophrenic energy policy. Americans far removed from the spill are outraged by the environmental devastation spreading throughout the Gulf of Mexico. But are they so outraged that they're giving up their cars? Is anyone calling for a moratorium on oil?

Feldman might not have been the best choice to hear this case, but the American people aren't necessarily the best choice to pass judgment on the oil industry either.

-- Jim Jelter

From: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/passing-judgment-on-the-gulf-spill-2010-06-23?reflink=MW_news_stmp


So Eric and any other hypocrites out there... how is that bicycle riding coming along??? Just make sure you don't use rubber tires or oil on your chain and bearings... those are petroleum based!

I wish States like Louisiana, Texas, Alaska and other ENERGY-RICH States would just cut off the bleeding heart States that don't want to drill or mine in their own areas... and let all of them start riding their bikes everywhere, die from heat exhaustion during the summers and freeze to death during the winters... and turn their cars into planters for their wacky tobaccky or maybe put a Crucifix or statue of Jesus in their car and fill it with urine or feces and call it artwork... WHAT A BUNCH OF FREAKING FREAKS!!!

Bill... are you happier now? LOL

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/


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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:50 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

Hi Len,

Happy? That's a relative term but I think I can state my case simply enough for you.

Off- shore drilling employs many thousands of people. It's dangerous work to say the least, so is working on or near Nuclear Power plants. Their need is justified and also necessary, to a point.

Unfortunately though, their very existence threatens many other things, not discounting people themselves. These things both offer pathways or alternatives to the energy crises situation we all live with daily.

But these industries suffer from extremely high profit margins but no on-board safe guards. In short, when these folks have an "accident" it quickly assumes monumental proportions. The cost of human life rises sharply and the cost to the environment, well that's the big question, isn't it. And who pays for it in the end?

Already there is worry for the folks in your neighborhood down there about BP going belly -up. Who pays for all of it in the end? The company? They go belly-up, declare bankruptcy, hide a bit and become re-born again under a different corp. name and start all over. I truly believe the President is only trying to insure REAL safeguards so these "accidents" can't happen again and if they do, the proper things are in place to deal with the problem. We didn't learn much the Valdez mess did we? How are things going up there? Why just fine, those shipping lanes are wide open. Who's really kidding who?

Let's stay on fish subjects, after all they don't vote!

Bill


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:22 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

BP is not going belly-up. Start watching Bill O'Reilly instead of the LSM. BP has over 100 TRILLION DOLLARS in oil reserves so the 20 BILLION or more that this will cost is not going to bankrupt them. (NOTE: a TRILLION is a THOUSAND BILLION in case folks forget how much those first two letters cost us taxpayers when our elected liars, crooks and thieves have now deficit spent us up to THIRTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS and climbing to TWENTY TRILLION DOLLAR level under Obama, according to the Federal Reserves own numbers, which is up from 7.9 TRILLION when the Dem's took over Congress in 2006, so that's a 250% increase in the National Debt in less than 10 years). Yes, the Republicans were bad when they controlled Congress from 1994 thru 2005 (and I and other conservatives have said it a thousand times) but the liberal Dem's, in the past four years, have far outdone any previous records for deficit spending and raising the national debt by leaps and bounds!!!! And that's not counting all of the deficit spending and debt being carried by so many liberal-democrat controlled Cities and States as well.

As far as staying on fish topics... YOU started this new "Oil???" thread.... but then when I force-feed some of you the truth, you want to change the topic. TYPICAL lib!!! LOL

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:39 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

Bill said: "...But these industries suffer from extremely high profit margins but no on-board safe guards. In short, when these folks have an "accident" it quickly assumes monumental proportions. The cost of human life rises sharply and the cost to the environment, well that's the big question, isn't it. And who pays for it in the end?..."

Bill,

I don't know about nuclear but the oil industrial DOES NOT have "extremely high profit margins". That's a bald-faced lie! Oil companies have to spend their own money to explore, drill, harvest, transport, refine, deliver to gas stations and all they make are a couple of pennies per gallon of gas in profit... whereas Congress does absolutely NOTHING and gets over 18 cents a gallon. Now, exactly who is getting the extremely high profit margins???

As far as "on-board safe guards", these companies have to comply with 6' tall stacks of regulations and permitting through more than a dozen different government offices and have to be inspected and approved at every step.... so if there aren't enough "on-board safe guards", you can once again blame Congress for that as well.

As far as the accident "assumes monumental proportions", it could have been MUCH less today if Obama would have accepted foreign help from day one... or rather day three or four, when it was offered, with written formal notice delivered on April 25, but instead Obama waited until June 14 to accept the help and publicly announced this a couple of days later.

Read more here...

"How The Government Slowed Down The Gulf Cleanup" -

Our own government has quietly admitted that America needs foreign help to handle the oil spill — almost two months after pushing that help away.

Far more oil could have been intercepted before it fouled the Gulf Coast. So why hasn’t our government apologized?

By refusing foreign assistance, we banned both the latest technology and cleanup vessels that far exceed the capacity of America’s oil spill response vessels (OSRVs). We rejected ships with 10 times the capability of the vessels we used instead.

In a quiet announcement on June 18, the Federal On-Scene Coordinator (FOSC) finally agreed that we need help, describing a conclusion reached two days before:

“. . . the FOSC, in coordination with other federal agencies, determined on June 16, 2010, pursuant to 46 U.S.C. §55113, that there are an insufficient number of specialized oil skimming vessels in the U.S. to keep pace with the unprecedented levels of oil discharges in the Gulf of Mexico. Based upon this determination, foreign specialized skimming vessels may be deployed to response operations.”

Technically, the Jones Act remains unwaived and continues to restrict use of foreign vessels other than OSRV’s. Officials invoked only a limited exemption that was put into law after Hurricane Katrina.

By their delay, our bureaucracy and government regulation have made a horrible situation even worse. There were two weeks between the April 20 explosion on the Deepwater Horizon and the time when the first oil made landfall. And it was almost six additional weeks before specialized equipment from overseas was approved by our government for limited use.

The Dutch formally offered help on April 25. Not until June 14 did the U.S. State Department announce that some foreign help would be welcomed from the 17 nations who had been trying to assist.

More... http://tinyurl.com/2wo8e4w

for full URL,

http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/Gulf-oil-BP-cleanup/2010/06/22/id/362748?s=al&promo_code=A236-1

You truly believe WRONG about your president. It's all about "never let a disaster go to waste"... the operating status-quo of Obama and his chief of staff, Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel (there's your "fish" word for keeping things on topic). Obama started working on using this accident to further his political agenda LONG before he worried about cleaning up the accident.

How's that hopey-changey thing going for you now??? It's more like Jimmy Carter's presidency on steroids!!!

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/


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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:54 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

I said " I MISSED ALL THE MAIL-----------I am sorry!

I should have said I MISSED ALL THE "FISH" MAIL!

Mentioned somewhere before, I ALSO said these discussions offer little to the group as a whole so why continue with them? There is no good to come of any of it. Since NONE of us are in such a position of power as to be able to use such valuable advice, any good which might come of it is wasted. Moreover, it lays waste to valuable FISH discussion space.

Bill


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:05 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

Nahhh.. you know you wanted the Oil debate again or you wouldn't have started the new thread with the subject line of "Oil??????", which means "Oil Questions"... and your comment in that first post included, "...I'm sorry ------------------------- I liked it better when we had the controversy going ---------- at least there was mail..."

Besides, I did mention Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel in my last post, to keep things on the fish topic. ;-)

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/


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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of harry perry
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:57 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit

If we're bored I am sure we can find some fish related topics.

This is bullshit and it's getting old quick. If folks like a controversy they can join a group for that. This group is about fish keeping.

We have 2389 members who joined this group to learn about keeping fish not a few members opinions on the oil spill or politics.

If some folks want more mail, join more groups. I have over 350 messages a day in my mailbox.

Maybe the folks that are bored should try submitting some topics for discussion.

What a concept!!!!!.

Harry


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:36 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit

Don't worry Harry... probably less than 200 of the supposed 2,389 people actually get the emails. If you ever look down the list of Members, the overwhelming majority of people are on "No Mail" or "Special Notices" only. Every once in a while, you'll see someone with "Individual Email" or "Daily Digest" but 80-90% DO NOT get mail from the group. So, if 20% are supposed to be getting mail, that would be nearly 500 people BUT out of those who are supposed to be getting email, 303 are bouncing right now, meaning they aren't getting mail either.... which brings my calculations down to the 200 figure... and there's a possibility that many of those remaining 200 don't even open the majority of the emails or they may not be checking their email at all so they're not getting them either.

Start a poll to see how many people still check in with the group. You could have choices like, Individual Emails, Daily Digest, check group daily, 2-3 times a week, once a week, 2-3 times a month, once a month, etc. and after a month or two, check to see what the numbers are. You could also send out a Special Notice of this poll which would possibly reach a few hundred more members.

It's the nature of any forum or group or company or group of voters or humans in general... 90% of the work is done by 10% or less.... and with income taxes collected and wasted by Congress, it's 90%+ of the income taxes are paid by the top 10% or less of the income earners... and then wasted by less than a fraction of 0.1%, particularly 535 as a percentage of 300 Million... which I think is 0.000000178333% but I could be off by one zero.

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/


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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of jaiko
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:31 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit

i believe gang that were loosing countless fish species as we speak in the gulf of Mexico so this is a fish topic i think?


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:26 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit

Yes, there are fish deaths and other wildlife deaths but I don't think we're losing either countless fish and certainly not entire species. Is there damage being done, yes, but the Gulf of Mexico is a BIG place and the oil is only affecting a very small part of it right now. The Gulf of Mexico recovered from a similarly bad spill back in 1979 from a rig off of Mexico's coast that flowed unabated for a couple of months and we didn't have the technology for cleaning things up back then like we have today... and most folks do not even remember the 1979 spill because it DID NOT kill the Gulf of Mexico... just like this accident will not kill the Gulf of Mexico.

See my last post, an hour or two ago, about what Obama could have done back in April to seriously mitigate the damages... but he waited nearly two months before doing it. For any fish or other wildlife lost during that period, then he has a large percentage of that blood on his hands. I'll wait for the next couple of winters before I play the "I told you so card!" about the price of heating oil and the people that die because they can't afford it or it's not even available... but I did write my blog article a couple of weeks ago so my prediction is well documented.

The Feds are still putting up roadblocks to our efforts to stop the oil from getting into our marshes and coastlines down here. If we lost even more of our marshes, then it will raise the risk of even more humans dying with any big hurricane that hits our area so that blood will be on Obama's hands as well. I wish Gov. Jindal would have our LA Air National Guard patrol our work areas and fire a warning shot over the bow of the next Coast Guard or Wildlife and Fisheries boat that tries to stop our efforts to secure our coastlines.

Lenny for Governor... or better yet, President!!! LOL

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/


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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:42 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

So the whole business world reporting their record profits was just a big lie Lenny?

Eric


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:56 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

Ummmm... except for the SOCIALIST-liberal-democrat mentality, making profit is a GOOD THING!!! Geez... how did my once great pro-capitalism, freedom loving AMERICA degrade into such a pathetic socialistic, pro-BIG-goverment, anti-capitalism mindset for so many people???

Would you rather they lose money like EVERY government run program that us taxpayers pay for... or maybe all of the companies that Obama and Bush thought were "too big to fail" and us taxpayers had to bail them out? Would that be better for you???

"Record profits" happen due for many reasons... such as the rapidly growing and industrializing countries like China and India, so global companies are selling their product to a MUCH larger customer base... just like Walmart sets new records every year for their sales/profits because they are opening up new stores everywhere. They still operate on very small profit margins except they have increased their customer base to increase their profits... usually while lowering their prices. IF ONLY GOVERNMENT COULD LEARN FROM THAT!!!

The "Profit Margin" is still the same for most oil companies... just a couple of pennies per gallon of gas sold... after the oil company did all that work to get the gas to your local gas station.

You should be complaining about your local, State and Federal government skimming HUGE PROFITS off the top of every gallon of gas sold... which adds up to nearly a DOLLAR per gallon in some States. In Louisiana, it's nearly 60 cents a gallon between Federal, State and local taxes on each gallon of gas. That's over a 30% to 50% tax on every gallon of gas and the government DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to produce that gallon of gas except make it harder and harder for the oil companies to drill for it in the first place. When gas was under $2.00 a gallon at retail, the tax was nearly a 100% tax in some States. Without the taxes, the gas would have only cost a dollar a gallon in those States.

A gallon of gas is less than a gallon of bottled water OR a gallon of milk and considering everything the oil companies have to do to get that gallon of gas to your local gas station, it's actually amazing that they can produce gasoline so inexpensively and efficiently. If only government could do things efficiently and effectively!!!

THANKS BP, EXXONMOBIL, SHELL, ETC. God bless all of you guys and gals for making our lives easier and more productive for such a low price!!!!

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/


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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:52 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

You didn’t answer my question, oh mighty spouter of corporatist propaganda.


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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:58 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

In order for me to answer your question, you first have to read my reply... paragraph three in particular, but the rest of my reply as well. I try not to use big words. ;-)

Just so you know, Fox News has reported that Judge M. Feldman DOES NOT own Transocean or BP stock. He divested himself of the Transocean stock and NEVER owned BP stock, and he owned very little of the Transocean stock anyhow, so his ruling is not tarnished by your rumor. If only politicians were so un-tarnished!!!

Further, the Federal Appeals court denied the guv-ments request to stay Judge Feldman's order so the moratorium is lifted!!!! YEEEE-HAWWWWWWWWW!!!! THAR'S OIL IN THEM THAR WELLS!!!! "...BUBBLING CRUDE, OIL THAT IS, BLACK GOLD, TEXAS TEA!!!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkOGM6gHvao



BTW... thanks for the compliment and promotion to "oh mighty"... but Oh Mighty should probably be capitalized since it refers to God... oh wait... you were calling me "oh mighty", not referring to God, so that's OK if it's not capitalized. LOL

But really..."Corporatist propaganda"??? OMG... you really are a socialist!!! I thought I was just messing with you when I called you that in past replies. But I'd MUCH rather be a "corporatist" than a socialist... so I thank you for that compliment! ;-)

But speaking of fish... I CAN'T believe you buy fish or anything else from pet stores or anywhere else... those are ALL capitalist ventures as well.... and YOU'RE SUPPORTING THEM.. you better not let all your commie-lib friends... or would that be fellow comrades find out! LOL

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/

Here's my latest political blog which includes much of this new thread and some other good stuff!!! http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/oil.html I do allow comments so feel free to move the debate/discussion over there to keep folks happier over here.

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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber Berglund
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:56 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

Lenny do you like to kick sleeping dogs too? ;)

Amber

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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:14 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

My dogs have always been smart enough to learn not to sleep in the middle of a walkway... it usually only took one kick! Some humans, sadly, aren't so trainable. LOL

Lenny Vasbinder

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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of jaiko
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:00 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

how about them dolphins?..lol

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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 8:33 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

The Saints beat 'em 46-34... after being down by 21 points... on the way to eventually winning the Superbowl this year!!! WHO DAT!!!

Now I have to add my "SAINTS WIN!!!" signature too! LOL

Oooops... does cheering for my Saints also make me a "corporatist" propagandist? LOL

Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/

SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-)

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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of William M
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:53 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oil????????????????????????????

Lenny,

In one of your previous post, you mentioned that this oil spill is not killing the gulf. Does this mean that you are using the water from the gulf to change water in your tanks? Are you going down and swimming in the oily gulf water? Why is BP allowed to burn oil where they know that endangered turtles are going to be killed? Do they have to go to court like anyone else that might kill an endangered animal?

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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:08 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oil????????????????????????????

Nope... I am not using water from the Gulf... it's saltwater (although I may use it for my proposed Gulf Of Mexico Biotope Tank.. lol)... but I do use water from the Mississippi River which IS FAR MORE POLLUTED than the Gulf... thanks to all the upriver States dumping so much crap into the river before it gets down here. Fortunately, it's cleaned up real good before it gets to my place! ;-)

I went swimming in the NOT oily Gulf this past weekend. The entire Gulf and/or coastline is NOT soaked in oil... not withstanding the few video clips that the LSM (Lame Stream Media) plays over and over and over showing that one pathetic looking oil covered pelican and a few other clips showing the worst of the worst. The MAJORITY of the coastline is still mostly unaffected by anything more than some tar balls that wash ashore when the tide comes in. Please note that tar balls wash ashore ALL beaches ALL year long due to NATURAL seepage from ocean bottom oil leaks... "NATURAL" meaning not caused by man.

You should look at a Google Earth image of the oil spill. While it's certainly not a good thing for the areas that the spill is affecting, it's only a fraction of the Gulf of Mexico that is being affected right now and the 1979 spill was still worse... although this spill is catching up fast! My blog article back on June 7th includes a graph of the world's worst oil spills and the BP spill is still WAY down on the chart.

http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/graph-says-it-all-bp-oil-spill-compared.html

Here's my entire series of now eight articles about the BP oil spill, which includes the above article.. if the above link breaks, it's included in the below shorter link.

http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP

If Obama would have allowed foreign help starting back on April 25th... instead of waiting until June 14th... and if he would have IMMEDIATELY mobilized the 2,000+ skimmers that are based in America, instead of the ONLY 46 or so that were in the Gulf area already, there would be FAR LESS oil in the water and possibly NONE coming on shore since 2,000+ skimmers would have been sucking it up way out in the middle of the Gulf instead of us having to just watch it get closer and closer to our shorelines as the days and weeks went by. All of this is also documented in my more recent articles.

The 20 BILLION DOLLAR fund that BP has set up does cover the cost of cleaning up the entire spill, cleaning up any oil covered animals and also covers paying fines for each animal that dies as a result of the spill.

They are allowed to burn the oil right now because that is what the Federal Government approved. Blame Congress for that. I still scratch my head as to why they are burning it instead of loading it all into an oil tanker to be processed but one of my more recent blog articles have information as to why they are doing it that way. Something about the oily water being skimmed up is 80-90% water and has already been treated with the chemical dispersants so it's not easily refined and more easily burned. Once again, blame Congress who writes all of the laws that govern the writing of all of the rules and regulations. Congress has been controlled by the Democratic Party since 2006... but I guess they'll try to blame Bush also instead of accepting responsibility for their actions and inactions.

Please reply with any comments on my non-fish blog, http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/, since some members of this group do not like talking about the oil spill. Just click the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article and bash me or applaud me all you want. I'm a big boy and I take it all in stride! ;-)

Lenny Vasbinder

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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:52 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

You are just plainly ignorant… especially if you would rather be called a corporatist. But I think that Mussolini and Hitler would be proud to have you amongst their ranks as fellow corporatists.

Oh yes, Fox, that bastion of truth and honesty…right…

In 2008 Feldman had financial holdings with Transocean, the company that owned the faulty oil rig. [6] According to the Fiscal Disclosure Report required by the Ethics in Government Act of 1978, Judge Feldman held the following relevant energy and oil industry investments, with a heavy incidence of Louisiana based businesses:

BlackRock ($12000- $36000); Ocean Energy ($1000 – $2500); NGP Capital Resources ($1000 – $2500); Quicksilver Resources ($5000 – $15000); Hercules Offshore ($6000 – $17500); Provident Energy; Peabody Energy; PenGrowth Energy; RPC Inc; Atlas Energy Resources; Parker Drilling; TXCO Resources; EV Energy Partners; Rowan Companies; BPZ Resources; El Paso Corp; KBR Inc; Chesapeake Energy and ATP Oil & Gas. [7]

For the Lousiana Judgeapedia project judgepedia.org/index.php/Martin_Feldman

No ties to the oil industry there…

Eric

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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:44 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

No, I'm not ignorant... I'm just NOT a socialist.

Typical lib... play the race card or the Hitler card when you can't win on the facts.

Neither Hitler nor Mussolini believed in capitalism.

"The Nazis accused communism and capitalism of being associated with Jewish influences and interests.[16] They declared support for a nationalist form of socialism that was to provide for... : economic security, social welfare programs for workers, a just wage, honour for workers' importance to the nation, and protection from capitalist exploitation.[17]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

That sounds MUCH MORE like the Democratic-liberal-socialist party than the Republican party... yet my Jewish friends still vote mostly for the Democrats but they can never explain to my why? Go figure!

Fox News is FAR MORE "Fair and Balanced" than any other news network. All of the other LSM networks are so far left-leaning, they have to lean their cameras so their anchors appear to be sitting up straight. LOL

Once again... you're not reading my replied.

Judge Feldman divested (that means sold) his TransOcean stock since that 2008 report. As far as his other energy related holdings... none of them amount to very much money. If you have a retirement plan, you probably have as much of a percentage of your investments in energy companies also. Even if you are going to rely on only Social Security, much of the money that comes into Congress is energy related taxes and fees.

Considering Obama got around A MILLION DOLLARS from BP and many more millions from all of the other energy companies, he's far more culpable and in bed with big energy than Judge Feldman... hmmmmm.. I wonder if that is why the Obama administration gave that BP rig a big thumbs up on all their permits and inspections just two weeks prior to the explosion???

As far as your last comment about "no ties to the oil industry", there is NOBODY in America or probably the world without any ties to the oil industry... maybe some jungle tribes who have never had contact with the outside world... but that's about it.

Have you ever owned or driven a car? Oil industry related!

Have you ever owned or ridden a bike? Oil industry related!

Have you ever worn polyester clothing? Oil industry related!

Are you using a computer and the internet that relies on various plastics and polymers for them to work? Oil industry related.

Do you use energy to heat or cool your apartment? Oil industry related!

OMG.... you better throw everything you own away and go move in with one of them aforementioned jungle tribes. I hear there is good fish collecting down in the Amazon so you won't have to support them capitalist pet stores either! LOL

Sheesh... I might have to go out and buy Glenn Beck's book, "Arguing With Idiots" http://www.glennbeck.com/bookczar/ ... I'm sure he must have a chapter that covers this discussion.

Lenny Vasbinder

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-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber Berglund
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:49 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

Lenny I don't even read most of your replies, especially ones not about FISH :P I've asked twice for this argument to stop and it hasn't yet. I'm about to start denying replies on purpose instead of letting someone else approve them so that you can reply again and continue the arguments.
They're getting old.

Amber

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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:31 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????

I keep LMAO down here, because you and some of the other mods are the biggest complainers about this thread.... yet they keep on approving the posts. I only reply to the ones that are allowed by someone else in the first place. I didn't start the thread but as long as the mods are allowing one side to post, then they have to allow the other side an appropriate response.

I've looked at the moderator's logs on the group's website and several different mods have been approving the posts. Every time one is approved, I check to see who approved it. Of course, not all members are moderated so some of their replies just come through without moderation.

I just do my part and post an appropriate and factual reply... since everyone else is too apathetic to do so... and probably because I know more about the truth about the BP spill than anyone else in the group... at least those that are active.

Of course, to answer your last sentence, I think people's apathy is "getting old". I'd MUCH RATHER have an involved citizenship than a bunch of people who cover their ears and chant LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA whenever politics or religion comes up in the conversation. They're the two things that affect EVERYBODY'S lives the most and yet people want to play ostrich whenever the subject comes up. ;-)

After sending this reply, I'll put myself back on moderation and let you all allow whatever you want to allow... which will probably just be one sided replies from those not on moderation from now on, since that would seem to make some of you happy... then everyone can go back to covering their ears and eyes and chanting LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!

Lenny Vasbinder

THINGS THEN WENT OFF-LIST BETWEEN ME AND SOME OF THE MODERATORS:

-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife-owner@
On Behalf Of Amber Berglund
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 6:28 PM
To: 'AquaticLife Moderator'
Subject: Political/religious discussions.

Okay I know I haven't been a moderator for very long, but I have a request that we create and enforce a new rule for the group; No religious/political discussions. We should consider this much similar to the rules you have at a work place, there's a reason there are no political or religious discussions; because people do not agree, and there are too many opinions to be expressed. Not to mention that people get easily upset and rude when they're talking about their beliefs.

Thanks for listening,

Amber

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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:50 PM
To: 'arberglund@gmail.com'; 'AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Political/religious discussions.

(covers eyes and ears with hands so I do not see or hear this offensive email and then get all "upset and rude" if I do see or hear it... why didn't I just delete the email???? God, I just don't know!!!)

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....

(while eyes and ears are covered, I mutter a reply anyhow)

I CAN'T HEAR OR SEE THIS EMAIL BECAUSE IT HAS THE TOPIC OF "POLITICAL/RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS" AND I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE MY EYES AND EARS ARE COVERED SO I'M TYPING AND REPLYING IN A LOUDER VOICE SINCE I CAN'T HEAR MYSELF EITHER.

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....

(uncovers eyes and ears for a moment to see if email went away... it didn't... so I reply)

And what about when people "do not agree" about something related to fish keeping... does that mean we can't discuss that either so as not to offend anyone??? I've seen folks get just as offended when I explain they cannot keep a goldfish in a bowl when the PetsMart employee told them they could have five goldfish in the same bowl.

(covers eyes and ears again since I don't want to hear an answer that I "do not agree" with)

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....

(uncovers eyes and ears again just for a moment to see if email went away... it didn't once again... so I reply again)

Political correctness, in America, run amuck!!!

(covers eyes and ears again so I do not see or hear anything that I "do not agree" with being said or typed by anyone else)

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....

(uncovers eyes and ears again to see if email went away yet... OH GOD!!!... it's still here and now, even worse,...)

Fox News Channel with Bill O'Reilly just came on and he is discussing Obama's failures and pitiful poll numbers due to his pathetic and pitiful response, in part, to the oil spill, immigration, the Afghanistan war, the pathetically high deficits for the past two years and outrageously high national debt, among other things.

(covers eyes and ears again so I can't see or hear the email or my TV now)

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....

(I think I feel a warm and fuzzy, blissful feeling coming over me now... maybe even "a tingle running up my leg"... since you know the old saying... "Ignorance Is Bliss!")

LMAO... I know this won't get posted to the group but at least I can add it to both of my blogs and people can choose to read it or not (hit the X or Delete key)... and even post un-moderated comments on MY blogs.... some that I may not even agree with!!!... OMG, the outrage!!!!

And what about when discussing how the various species came to be, since that subject comes up often? Are we only allowed to discuss Darwin's "theory of evolution" and use terms like Mother Nature since we do not want to offend anyone by saying "intelligent design" or "God works in mysterious ways"... and should I NOT capitalize the M and N in Mother Nature since when typing Mother Nature with a capital M and N, I actually meant God??? OMG, I'm so confused now!!!

OMG... is it OK to type OMG since the G stands for God??? Or is it OK since I only used the first letter? Confusion is running amuck now!!!

SMAO!!! Smiling, not laughing, My Ass Off!!!... does anyone really laugh out loud EVERY TIME they type LOL? I guess the or really are more appropriate than the overuse of LOL and LMAO.

I think I'll have to nominate myself for a Pulitzer Prize for this reply... it may well be my best and most satirical reply to an email... EVER!

Heck, now I might even go into a crowded theater and scream FIIIIIIIRRRRRREEEEEEEE!!!!!.... ooops... now I've crossed the freedom of speech line... but everything up to that point was all OK in my book... although the PC Police may not have agreed.

Lenny Vasbinder

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-----Original Message-----
From: Amber Berglund
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 8:46 PM
To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny; 'AquaticLife Moderator'
Subject: Re: Political/religious discussions.

No Lenny the point is that we're all adults, and if people can't learn to let arguments drop and act like an adult, then those of us in charge need to "be the better man/woman" and help enforce rules so that hopefully we can keep arguments to a minimum.

politics and religious beliefs are very controversial topics anywhere, and the fact that you had to keep having the last word on the argument shows that you need to learn how to drop it and let everything go back to a more civil tone. You actually encouraged foul language from other members that were arguing with you when you're supposed to be a moderator yourself and keep people in line so to speak.

It's fine to have off topic posts that people want to discuss, but it's another thing encouraging an argument and rude behavior from other members, and continuing to do so when more than just a few people request that the topic be ended.

I think you're a great fountain of information Lenny, but sometimes you really like to pick controversial topics and don't know when to drop them.

Amber

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-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:44 PM
To: 'arberglund@; 'AquaticLife-owner@'
Subject: RE: Political/religious discussions.

I agree that most of us are adults and therefore we should be able to have an open and honest discussion and debate about anything, even off-topic things and folks could just put OT- in front of the subject. You call it an argument, I call it a discussion and debate.

I have been waiting for the "you had to keep having the last word" card to get played against ME... and nobody else... although I expected it MUCH sooner. ;-) I've heard that MANY times over the past 20+ years but IMO, that's such a pathetic thing that some people say in any discussion or debate... primarily when they don't agree with someone... or when they're losing the debate badly... it's analogous to if you can't win the game, take your ball and go home, IMO.

Someone is always going to get the "last word" eventually... or not... so that "last word" card should/could be applied to EVERYONE who replied in the thread... or even to those that started the threads (cough, cough), since the threads could have gotten shut down after their "last word" instead of MY or someone else's "last word"... and does this mean that only YOUR "last word" is an acceptable "last word" since you were the last to reply to the last thread??? Or was it someone else's "last word" as the "last word" in the threads? When Bill started the new "Oil???????" thread, if nobody replied, then would you play the "last word" card against him? I hope you can see the lunacy or hypocrisy of someone playing the "last word" card... do they think that only they should have the "last word"? Now, if folks wanted to put a message count or time limit on debates/discussions and the buzzer rings, then that would be a more "fair" way of determining the "last word" but for someone else to try and get in the "last word" by playing the "you always have to have the last word" card, then they are as guilty of the "last word" card as the person they are playing it against... I think that's called hypocrisy.

Don't look to me to "keep people in line" when it comes to free speech. I'm a bastion of free speechism so I'm NEVER going to shut someone up... especially when it's on such an important topic as politics and religion... the two things that affect our lives (literally) the most. I've stated this many, many, many times over the years when ever politics and religion comes up... and it always will... regardless of how many people do the LA-LA-LA-LA-LA thing. Millions of people have DIED for our rights to have our politics, religion and free speech and while I might piss on Obama's and many other modern politician's graves... both democrat and republican and especially socialist, fascist and communist, I'll never piss on the grave of someone that stood up and DIED for our rights.... namely the founding fathers and early leaders of America and our members of the military... well, maybe I would piss on John Kerry's grave. LOL Someone much smarter than me once said, "While I may not agree with what you say, I'll fight to the death for your right to say it!" or one of the many other morphs of the original saying.... just like I'm replying to your emails instead of just ignoring them or deleting them... as I believe that you have a right to say what you say... but conversely, SO DO I!!!

I purposely didn't moderate (approve or deny) any of the posts concerning the two political threads and only replied to posts that some other moderator approved, as I knew I would be involved in the discussion and debate and didn't want to be accused of shutting someone up. At any point, any one of the 10+ moderators could have put everyone on moderation, including fellow moderators, just as I put myself on moderation, but NOBODY did so I continued to reply to each and every replies or questions directed towards me.

Now, as far as the "foul language", that is something that could/should be moderated and it's easy enough for any moderator to open a pending message, prior to it being approved, and remove or change any foul language. I personally didn't use any "foul language", although I did use some "fowl language" , so any messages that contained "foul language" was either from other members and more particularly, from other moderators. "Bullshit" could have been changed to "Bull manure" or "Bull feces" so it wouldn't be "foul language" yet still get the point across to those that agree with them... but to those of us who don't agree with them, we can just delete the message with that subject line or choose to participate in the discussion and debate.

As far as people that do not want to participate... which unfortunately is a LARGE percentage of apathetic Americans, just like at the polls, they can refuse to show up... or in email terms, they can simply hit the delete key if they see a subject line they are not interested in. That's what I do... it's so simple and it works 100% of the time! Although I show up at the polls 100% of the time since I first registered to vote when I was 18 years old.

These people that complain and leave the group or threaten to leave the group, because they somehow can't hit the delete key, are simply people that do not believe in free speech or do not agree with what one or another party may be saying so they want to shut everyone up by their pathetic threats to leave. I say... take your ball and leave if you're that kind of person... I'll just get another ball and start the game up again after you're gone.

Fortunately, based on the number of off-list emails that I got, there are FAR MORE people that agreed with my positions and were glad I had the balls to say them. Unfortunately, those same folks were too afraid of the PC Police to speak up on-list... but I understand when some people are afraid after being beat into submission by the leftist PC Police.

I might have to morph another old saying... instead of "The only way they'll take my guns, is to pry them from my cold dead fingers!", I'll change it to "The only way they'll take my keyboard, is to pry it from my cold dead fingers!" LOL

NOW... all this said, in the past few days, I've been looking at all the other BIG Yahoo Groups related to fish keeping and if you look at the message count chart on the home page of these many other groups, messages are WAY DOWN in almost every group in the past two years. Only one group stayed pretty consistent and I was going to look at their messages since they were the only group that was consistent, but they have their messages shut down, except for members, so I can't peek at their subject lines until I have time to do so, now that I've been approved for the group. I'll report back later on that.

I haven't gone through and read the thousands of threads for the past two years in all the other open message groups, but I have a theory that the message count is down for one or both of the following theoretical reasons:

1) The economy, unemployment, deficit, national debt, etc., are SO BAD under the last year of Bush and even worse under Obama that people are hoarding their money and are not buying fish so fish talk is down in general. I've also noticed SEVERAL other LONG-TIME online forums that have just shut down and gone away... sites like PlantGeek's, Aquatic-Hobbyist, etc. simply have closed their doors, probably due to lack of participation in the past two years. I'm sure there are many, many others that I do not know about.

My other theoretical reason is:

2) Politics has come up far more often with Obama's socialist, big-government, tax-and-spend, deficit spending the national debt by record levels, Obamacare, etc... so these other groups shut other freedom-of-speech-people up often enough that they just left the groups or no longer participate.... or the relatively few people that don't believe in freedom of speech left the groups OR because one or two people left, the moderators got paranoid and became mini-dictators and everyone else kind of shut up too.... hmmmm.. now that theory sounds familiar! ;-)

As you see, I do neither! ;-) I try to practice what I preach... whether it be fish keeping related or far more important topics like politics and religion.

Here are several other group's home pages where you can see the message count charts to verify what I've theorized above.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SaltWaterAquariums/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reefcity/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub/ (the only relatively consistent message count group)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums/

And last but not least, http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/

Those are the three biggest FW and SW yahoo groups, in no particular order, and all but one are suffering MAJOR decreases in message count in the past two years and even the TropicalFishClub, which by the way is the #1 group as far as total members, with 2,637 (of course they could have 80-90% spam-bot members harvesting email addresses as well), but they haven't had as many messages as AquaticLife each month, in the past... so I'm not sure what Aaron bases the "#1" designation on the AquaticLife home page to know if he means membership count or message count or if it's like a Nobel Pease Prize (such as Obama's, AlGore's and Jimmy Carter's... when Reagan did FAR MORE to promote and preserve world peace than those three combined and probably more than any other on the list and yet, he never got one... because it's all based on liberal-socialist politics, not on real peace - http://nobelprizes.com/nobel/peace/) or many of the Pulitzer Prizes that are based on made up science or facts ... or if the "#1" designation is like when I give myself a "Lenny Award" for outstanding whatever. LOL

Of course, maybe Aaron designated AquaticLife as #1 because I'm a member! Now that would be worthy of a "Lenny Award"!!!! Let me know Aaron, so I can get that right out to you! LOL

AquaticLife has lost FAR MORE members due to the overall LARGE number of posts... often topping more than 1,000 a month, than due to the political or religious threads. As I reported in an earlier post, at least 80% of people are on no-mail or special notices only and of the remaining 500 members who are supposed to be getting emails, over 300 are bouncing... primarily due to their email boxes being filled up so new emails are returned to sender. In between the two GREAT DEBATE threads, I offered a solution to at least try and harvest and/or save all of the saltwater members who have come and gone over the years but you and I think Harry were the only other moderators to reply so until Aaron replies with a yea or nay, I've put that on the back burner.

BTW... I welcome your reply since I certainly wouldn't want to be the "last word". ;-)

Lenny Vasbinder

-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:51 PM
To: 'arberglund@gmail.com'; 'AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Political/religious discussions.

Ohhh.. I meant to add to that utterly ridiculous Nobel Peace Prize list that included Obama, AlGore and Carter... they gave a Nobel Peace Price to: "1990 - MIKHAIL SERGEYEVICH GORBACHEV , President of the USSR, helped to bring the Cold War to an end." which further illustrates the lunacy and hypocrisy and socialist-liberal mindset of that group since THE ONLY REASON Gorbachev helped bring the Cold War to an end was DUE TO PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN AND AMERICA'S MILITARY STRENGTH... do you remember America's Star Wars Missile Defense Program and the "Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" speech or were you too young?

Lenny Vasbinder

-----------

-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of harry perry
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 9:02 PM
To: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Lenny, this post is a crock of shit.

In reference to Lenny's reply starting with: "I keep LMAO down here, because you and some of the other mods are the biggest complainers about this thread.... yet they keep on approving the posts. I only reply to the ones that are allowed by someone else in the first place. I didn't start the thread but as long as the mods are allowing one side to post, then they have to allow the other side an appropriate response...."

Harry replied:

All you did was make an ass out of all the moderators.

I for one have no problem discussing politics, religion or anything else. Of course if we discuss this privately you won't have an audience.

It doesn't belong in a fish keeping group. This is not a forum for involved citizenship.

Something you just don't seem to get, this group isn't about you and your ideas.

It's a team effort. It's goal is fish keeping not what Lenny thinks we should be talking about.

If we want to stick our fingers in our ears or anywhere else it's none of your f------ business.

We joined this group because we have something in common we love fish.

We didn't join the Lenny Admiration Society.

Most of us use our hobbies and interests to maintain our sanity. So when we tune in here what do we get?. More of the same shit.

I hope we can procede as a team towards the same goal. FISH KEEPING.

Harry

-----------

-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:10 PM
To: 'harry perry'; 'AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Lenny, this post is a crock of shit.

I applaud your freedom of speech but I think you violated Amber's "foul language" rule... and make sure you wash that finger! ;-)

Your rant's and outrage should really be against those who started the threads and/or the moderators who approved the first message and then continued to approve the follow-up replies... for which I did neither.

And as far as whether it is my business if you want to cover your ears and ignore things... actually that is my business since ignorant American's are the ones that keep voting in the stupid-assed politicians that are doing the stupid-assed things to America (ooops... I just violated Amber's rule too).

Once again, I only replied to posts/threads that were first approved by a moderator or by un-moderated members, so if you feel I made an ass out of the other moderators, for those that approved the messages, if the shoe fits, wear it... of course, personally I'm VERY proud of those moderators for having a pair and being willing to approve the messages... but once again, your complaints and anger are aimed at the wrong person. What's the old saying, "Don't kill the messenger!"

I like that "Lenny Admiration Society" though... maybe I'll start up a Yahoo Group by that name... of course, I'll probably be the only member. ;-)

Lenny Vasbinder

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